Tolerance and Dialogue Activities
Dialogue and tolerance have been topics that have been much discussed in recent years, but some think that you are not sincere about this matter.
If the source of dialogue and tolerance were personal, then they wouldn't seem to be lasting, and those who were worried would be right. But my motive comes from religious sources. This is the course we are to follow. As long as religion lasts, dialogue and tolerance will keep continuing.
Is it interfaith dialogue, or intercultural one?
When one talks about interfaith dialogue— one can use a metaphor here, seeing faith as a spiritual person—the followers of that faith are meant. We should not be entangled with what it is called, whether it is more appropriate to call it an "intercultural dialogue" or a "dialogue between different philosophies (of life)." What is meant by these phrases covers a wider range and also takes into consideration members of different faiths, including those other than the Monotheistic religions.
You said the source of dialogue and tolerance is religion. Are there any examples from the time of the Prophet?
When the Prophet came to Madina he issued the declaration of Madina, made a treaty with the people there, and took them under his protection. This made Abdullah ibn Ubay ibn Salul, the leader of the Hypocrites, very angry. He immediately went to Makka, joined the meeting of the Polytheists and provoked them by saying "Look, this man is taking everybody on his side. He will be a great danger to you tomorrow." In other words, there were people who build everything on imagination and fantasy in those times also, just as there are now. Again, there is the instance of the mubahala (invoking God's curse with all one's heart on the party in a discussion who is lying), when he accepted the Christians of Najran. The Qur'anic verse "Say: ' Come! Let us gather together, our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves: Then let us earnestly pray, and invoke the curse of God on those who lie!'"(3:61) was revealed. When the Prophet challenged them to invoke a mubahala , they did not agree to do so, fearing the curse of a Messenger of God, and they agreed to pay taxes and live alongside the Muslims. He also made a treaty with the Christians of Taghlib, taking them on his side, and he made treaty that included heavy stipulations in Hudaybiya with the Polytheists.
We can see that the Rightly Guided Caliphs followed the same path. Likewise, we know how Salahaddin Ayyubi, Zengi, and Alparslan behaved. The Ottoman Sultan, Bayezid II, brought the Jews who were persecuted in Spain by ship to Istanbul . The Foundation of the 500th Year was established in memory of this. The same tolerance was found during the Republican Era, and some of those fleeing the tyranny of the Nazis took refuge in Anatolia . This phenomenon exists within our culture. Under our rule, a mosque, a church, and a synagogue are side by side, and people lived without any problems.
Do you think that another meaning will be given to tolerance tomorrow?
To do something like this is nothing less than hara-kiri, committing suicide. Thanks to dialogue, the process of presenting the glorious face of Islam, a face which has been darkened by living-bombs, and people who have been turned into robots through oppression, has started. And it will continue.
God's Messenger said: "My name will reach wherever the Sun rises and sets." I see this as our goal. The fact that the Prophet has been introduced as the founder of a religion whose members are terrorists is a grave injustice to his name. While there is the important duty awaiting the representatives of dialogue and tolerance of introducing God's Messenger correctly, the pursuit of different thoughts would mean destroying the positive impressions that have been created about the representatives, which is tantamount to treason.
You mean the missionaries?
Yes. It is true that the Church organization works all around the world and with vigor in Turkey , and they have very important representatives. One of our friends in Boston told me about a work written 500 years ago. In this work, written during a period when the Balkans were under Ottoman rule, the minority were addressed; "Stay there, secreting your feelings and thoughts, do not reveal yourselves. There will come a time when you will find the opportunity to express yourselves." This point seems to me to be something that should be considered very carefully as a form of counsel for some people early on.
Yes , there are such things, but such activities carried out in the Vatican or in some other place have nothing to do with our movement of tolerance and dialogue. Neither I, nor any of my friends who are devoted to this movement with me, can in no way be accused of being directed by somebody else. Our movement of dialogue and tolerance belongs completely to the Turkish nation and originates in Turkey . The dialogue activities are not an extension of the activities of others. On the contrary, these other activities originated from the idea of "if they are doing it, why shouldn't we? Why shouldn't we look for ways of expressing ourselves by planning meetings with them?"
Some Islamic groups see the process of dialogue as a backward step.
Whatever those who appear to be Hodjas (religious leaders), or who talk about being a great spiritual figure or a saint think, God alone knows, He knows what is in our hearts. I did not refrain from following the path of God's Messenger, even in the details of how I go to bed at night, let alone in such important matters. I don't think any of our friends have done the same.
Islam accepts Jesus as a true Messenger of God. Are there any Christians who similarly accept that Prophet Muhammad is a Messenger of God?
There were some people who visited me during the process of dialogue. We had a chance to meet in different environments. When we were together, the time for prayer came. They responded with respect when we asked them to excuse us. They said: "Please, we will be praying here until you finish your prayer." Thousands of such people with mild attitudes have said "Muhammad is God's Messenger, and the Qur'an is God's word," thanks to the activities of dialogue.
As if he had worked a miracle, Said Nursi used the term "Christian Muslims" to indicate this fact and to display his good intentions about them.
This term is used for those Christians who are free of biased opinions about our religion, who accept our Prophet as a true Messenger of God, and who believe that the Qur'an is the word of God. I can show you hundreds of such people. Unfortunately, some do claim that "some (Muslims) adopt Christianity because of these activities of tolerance and dialogue." Please forgive me, but this is nothing less than a lie. But there is nothing we can do, everybody is making clear their own nature.
If religion promotes dialogue, are those who oppose it worried about their own piety?
Some think that the rest of the world should be as they are. Let them take a look at their nation. Their achievement in maintaining the values of their own spiritual fundamentals shows how strong their faith is. It would not be correct to generalize about the nation; this could cause suspicions if the matter is the European Union. If someone is afraid to do so, let others do it.
Once we were meeting with a clergyman who had great respect for Islam. He said "Our young people are running away from the Church." And I told him that the number of our young people who go to the mosque to pray and who fast during Ramadan was increasing. He went on to say "There is a great deal of depression among the young people. Honestly speaking, I would not like to be in God's place before such a generation."
And I said "Considering the relation between God and his servants, I think such an expression is unbecoming for a person of your position." This man acted very noble-heartedly when he replied and said "I apologize to God, it was a slip of my tongue." Now, these people are worried about their own youth. We don't need to do any missionary work. If we can have the opportunity to express ourselves correctly, this will be sufficient for us.
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